These things are interesting but i can't see how my compassion would help. If i had the money i'd donate and make a difference but i'm not going to feel sorry enough for them to post my compassion for them on forums and other places.
Of course it's a bad thing this happened and many lives have been ruined but you just have to deal with it and according to me feeling sorry for them is not the way to do that.|||Quote:
ugh! absolutely disgusting! i have not checked my facebook account yet, but a girl that was with us last night had said she had **** like that in her news feed. really? are some of us STILL pissed about that when it happened so long ago not to mention that they're our ally now. ya know, THAT'S not a big deal or anything nor enough reason to care about the thousands have died. we still have our internet and houses. the hell with Japan, right? *line of obscenities flow*
Not to mention hiroshima / nagasaki. At least Pearl Harbor was a military base.|||Shifting the issue to WW2 will do no good, even if it sounds like a valid topic in this context. I know that rather well, for certain reasons (see my location and google for "Godwin's Law").|||I know. Heh.|||http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social..._80477421.html
A meltdown was and is physically impossible*. The laws of physics proving that were confirmed at TMI.
A hydrogen leak blew out the brick facade on the industrial building housing the reactor and containmen*t system. Nothing to do with the containmen*t itself.
Radiation levels per hour in the area near the front entrance of the No. 1 Fukushima plant reached 0.59 micro Sievert about the same as eating 7 bananas or spending two hours shopping in La Paz, Bolivia.
This reactor is a 1950's design slightly upgraded in the 60's. All Gen III+ nukes and all Candu's have passive coolant systems which would have avoided this problem.
The reactor was due to be scrapped next year.
The accident puts enormous shame on the Japanese people that the systemic corruption endemic in their culture would have allowed a well known corporate bandit to get away obvious uncorrecte*d maintenanc*e flaws saving money on a soon to be scraped reactor that put the plant and the area in harms way. This sort of graft would result in summary execution in China. It is impossible in the US where the NRC would never allow a nuke on a tidal plain to have backup systems in harms way.”
__________________________________________
The Below is from a PDF from:
American Nuclear Society Backgrounder:
Japanese Earthquake/Tsunami; Problems with Nuclear Reactors
3/12/2011 5:22 PM EST
To begin, a sense of perspective is needed… right now, the Japanese earthquake/tsunami is clearly a
catastrophe; the situation at impacted nuclear reactors is, in the words of IAEA, an "Accident with
Local Consequences."
The Japanese earthquake and tsunami are natural catastrophes of historic proportions. The death toll is
likely to be in the thousands. While the information is still not complete at this time, the tragic loss of
life and destruction caused by the earthquake and tsunami will likely dwarf the damage caused by the
problems associated with the impacted Japanese nuclear plants.
What happened?
Recognizing that information is still not complete due to the destruction of the communication
infrastructure, producing reports that are conflicting, here is our best understanding of the sequence of
events at the Fukushima I‐1 power station.
The plant was immediately shut down (scrammed) when the earthquake first hit. The automatic
power system worked.
All external power to the station was lost when the sea water swept away the power lines.
Diesel generators started to provide backup electrical power to the plant’s backup cooling
system. The backup worked.
The diesel generators ceased functioning after approximately one hour due to tsunami induced
damage, reportedly to their fuel supply.
An Isolation condenser was used to remove the decay heat from the shutdown reactor.
Apparently the plant then experienced a small loss of coolant from the reactor.
Reactor Core Isolation Cooling (RCIC) pumps, which operate on steam from the reactor, were
used to replace reactor core water inventory, however, the battery‐supplied control valves lost
DC power after the prolonged use.
DC power from batteries was consumed after approximately 8 hours.
At that point, the plant experienced a complete blackout (no electric power at all).
Hours passed as primary water inventory was lost and core degradation occurred (through some
combination of zirconium oxidation and clad failure).
Portable diesel generators were delivered to the plant site.
AC power was restored allowing for a different backup pumping system to replace inventory in
reactor pressure vessel (RPV).
Pressure in the containment drywell rose as wetwell became hotter.
The Drywell containment was vented to outside reactor building which surrounds the
containment.
Hydrogen produced from zirconium oxidation was vented from the containment into the reactor
building.
Hydrogen in reactor building exploded causing it to collapse around the containment.
The containment around the reactor and RPV were reported to be intact.
The decision was made to inject seawater into the RPV to continue to the cooling process,
another backup system that was designed into the plant from inception.
Radioactivity releases from operator initiated venting appear to be decreasing.
Can it happen here in the US?
While there are risks associated with operating nuclear plants and other industrial facilities, the
chances of an adverse event similar to what happened in Japan occurring in the US is small.
Since September 11, 2001, additional safeguards and training have been put in place at US
nuclear reactors which allow plant operators to cool the reactor core during an extended power
outage and/or failure of backup generators – “blackout conditions.”
Is a nuclear reactor "meltdown" a catastrophic event?
Not necessarily. Nuclear reactors are built with redundant safety systems. Even if the fuel in the
reactor melts, the reactor's containment systems are designed to prevent the spread of
radioactivity into the environment. Should an event like this occur, containing the radioactive
materials could actually be considered a "success" given the scale of this natural disaster that
had not been considered in the original design. The nuclear power industry will learn from this
event, and redesign our facilities as needed to make them safer in the future.
What is the ANS doing?
ANS has reached out to The Atomic Energy Society of Japan (AESJ) to offer technical assistance.
ANS has established an incident communications response team.
This team has compiling relevant news reports and other publicly available information on the ANS blog,
which can be found at ansnuclearcafe.org.
The team is also fielding media inquiries and providing reporters with background information and
technical perspective as the events unfold.
Finally, the ANS is collecting information from publicly available sources, our sources in government
agencies, and our sources on the ground in Japan, to better understand the extent and impact of the
incident.|||@Bob- The buildings that are swaying are doing what they were designed to do. The bridges also sway. They are more prone to crack and crumble if they don't.
It's been 24/7 news coverage on this since it happened. Some of the things I've seen over here I cannot put into words. I don't know if all the videos and images have gotten out yet, in time I'm sure they will, but some are just mindblowing. It's now been upgraded to a 9.0. Puts it 4th in the world of the ones we know about. I have a friend in Sendai, we did get in contact with him though and he is alright. Some of my friends are in the Japanese military and have gone to help. God only knows when they will return. There is a place where there are 200~300 known dead, but they can't get to them, they were spotted by helicopter. Looks like they were swept away by the tsunami. A lot of the early warning systems worked, though of coarse, it couldn't save everyone. It would have been a lot worse without them. I just saw a mid sized tanker ship that was washed inland, incredible.
I'm no where near this, as I live in Kyushu, but I'm keeping an eye on the reactor. I don't think it's gonna be as bad as Chernobyl, but it could be another 3 mile island. A lot of people think the government is NOT saying what is fully going on. So I'm watching outside media to get a better perspective. And there are reasons why they built where they did.
Kev|||Like your name
I knew that thats why I thought it was Awesome but thanks for pointing it out for those that don't visit the OTF more often
|||Nuclear meltdown just means that the radioactive material gets so warm that it melts, not that it leaves the building, and that's something which will happen in Fukushima if they cannot cool the reactor properly... and just pouring seawater with boracic acid into it might not be enough. Whoever tries to tell you that a meltdown cannot happen there at all, he is lying.
"Nature" cannot be be blamed for anything or be guilty of anything. It's not anything with conscience or a mind. It's just things which might happen. If you park your car at the shore during ebb tide and it's flooded at flood tide, is it "nature's" fault? No, it will be your fault. Likewise, it's the fault of those who decided to build nuclear power plants at these places. Earthquakes of that strength are going to happen there and they come with tsunamis. There's no way of telling that an earthquake of that magnitude couldn't be expected. They simply took a gamble and hoped that nothing will happen during their lifetimes.
The reports about alleged plans to shut them down are irrelevant (I will not elaborate on the smell of a cheap excuse or a lie which comes from that statement BTW). I don't think that this is a case of bad luck. First, that would mean that they need luck to operate them properly which is an inacceptable base for nuclear power plants. Second, they decided to operate it on Friday and that was the one day on which it depended. They FAILED! Somebody is going to PAY! If it's not the owners, an insurance or the responsible organizations, then it will be the Japanese people.
However, it's not such a huge catastrophe like in Chernobyl which was a different kind of reactor, but still a great desaster, caused by ignorance of the natural conditions there.|||Well most people buy into the whole meltdown = burns a hole into the center of the earth thing.
But yes it does mean the fuel rods melt and goes critical burning til it's all gone, this type of reactor does not do that (as I understand it anyhow) once it starts melting the pile self extinguishes. Thus the no meltdown statement, it can start melting but it stops itself, still leaves a lot of radioactive mess though.
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I don't think that this is a case of bad luck. First, that would mean that they need luck to operate them properly which is an unacceptable base for nuclear power plants.
You don't seem to Realise the sun and every other star in the sky is a giant natural nuclear power plant and that the occasional Nova or Super-nova is a unlucky solar system experiencing a meltdown.
But that is the truth.
Hell we are hitting a very big peak solar cycle right now and if a big enough flare goes off and it's pointed right in line with the earth only the rat's and cockroaches etc are going to survive.
Luck is always needed in life.
That's part of why I'm a Optimist, the other part is because if you a pessimist you tend to not enjoy it, and we all are going to die so **** it, I'm gonna have a good time while I can.|||I studied physics, so I realize quite well what happens there and I also have a rather firm grasp of the meaning of probability issues
So it's now about how much luck is needed. You are talking about very small amounts (like hoping that no meteorite will strike you today) while the risk of an earthquake in Japan is far higher.
BTW, our sun will not become a supernova, it's not big enough. It will become a red giant, destroying or engulfing earth, and then a white dwarf.
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But yes it does mean the fuel rods melt and goes critical burning til it's all gone, this type of reactor does not do that (as I understand it anyhow) once it starts melting the pile self extinguishes. Thus the no meltdown statement, it can start melting but it stops itself, still leaves a lot of radioactive mess though.
Yes, but until it ceases, a lot of heat will be produced and if it cannot be drained off, it will become very hotter and hotter. The more water is pumped into the reactor, the more steam is produced and the higher the pressure will be. If you let off the steam, more water will evaporate which leads to hogher temperatures again. You need a medium which carries the heat away. There is no closed cooling system which is still working, so they cannot do anything but pumping water into the building and letting it off again, together with the radioactivity it carries.
BTW, the pressure is currently rising again in an uncontrolled manner in one of the reactors because a valve isn't working properly. If they cannot get it fixed, it will blow up.
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