This is about a holiday camp with children. I don't think that's a good place for having guns on your body. The owner might lose it or it might be stolen and then he will have a really big problem, with a hundred 16 year old children on the island.
I was taught about guns and how to shoot when I was five. Most people I know were taught how to shoot around that age as well. Many of them owned their first rifle at around 15ish, though legally it was their parent's until 18. Age is a non-issue.
The owner possibly loosing his gun or having it stolen is the responsibility of the owner, and is not very probable.
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I neither feel safer nor am I safer if I live in a place where I have to reckon with people with hidden guns all around me. I guess that in such a place, most people have their guns because of the others having a gun as well, in particular because of that quota of 10% which I will just call "problematic".
You feeling uncomfortable is all you. IMO, it probably just has a lot more to do with you just not being around guns much. Kinda like how people who spend their lives in a city typically don't feel comfortable around animals. In reality, you're probably even safer in a room of armed citizens than you are in the middle of a police station. (Well, unless its a KKK rally or something, but then if that's the case, WTF are you doing there in the first place?)
And no, people don't have guns because people have guns. People have guns because there are people that want what you have and are willing to hurt you to get it. Whether or not those people have guns doesn't matter.
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With a bit of talent, you can talk people into doing a lot of things if you wear an uniform, have a gun and wave around with your fishing license.
Which is why you don't just fork over all information to any guy with a badge.
If it gets to the point where they get desperate and grab at a kid for information, well the **** has hit the fan anyway and whatever plan they had is junk. What good is it going to do them to know who is armed at that point?
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How could the 9/11 attacks be made by a few guys with utility knives? The world isn't like in Bruce Willis movies.
No, it isn't. Everybody had been completely disarmed and, frankly, were still in sleep mode concerning terrorism. An air plane is about as vulnerable as you can get. Obviously you don't want people shooting holes in the plane, but the point is its not that hard to hijack a box of unarmed sheep if you've got even a basic weapon.
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I'm not sure if you meant this ironically or if you aren't informed that well. That guy laid a pretty big bomb in Oslo which killed a few people and caused a lot of damage, then he drove to the holiday island.
Point is they had an explosion and a shooting. Generally speaking, unless they got info that the shooting was an ongoing slaughter, explosion takes priority. Even after they got word, it seems they had limited transportation available.|||I see, this will turn into yet another gun debate. I'm got going to evangelize anybody. I'm fine with others have their own idea of how their society should be like. No guns for the public in Norway and Germany, more freedom regarding guns in the US. Fine, we have no speed limit on our Autobahns
... well OK, on a few of them.People in many European countries don't have to learn how to handle guns because nobody but soldiers, policemen and hunters usually has a gun. I think it doesn't make sense to apply US standards to countries with a completely different attitude towards guns. In the US, the gun issue has a completely different historic background than in Europe.|||Even in our deepest sorrow, norwegians don't get hysterical. We resist the hate. It is amazing to see how politicians and the whole country reacts. Norwegians are sad to the deepest thread of their souls. We cry in dignity. But nobody swears to take revenge. Instead we want even more humanity and democracy. That is one of the most remarkable strengths of our little country.|||I see that it didnt take long, before the US and A peeps came into this thread with their guns blazing. Its ok, its their way of dealing with things.
We Norwegians, have other ways. When 9/11 happened, George W.Bush said "We want him(Bin Laden) dead or alive". When this happened in Norway, our dear prime minister Jens Stoltenberg said "We will retaliate this with more democracy, more openess and more humanity."|||Quote:
I am gonna leave mourning to the people related to the victims and just decide not to give crap about this. It does not have an impact on my life and why would it? of course I think it must suck immensely for the people involved but since I don't expect anyone who doesn't know me to mourn my death I will just continue as if it didn't happen because if the news didn't cover it internationally I wouldn't know and niether would I care.
I just overexplained myself without really explaining myself properly. Don't quote me on any of this because as I said this does not explain my point very good.
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@ GuardianHadriel
Ok now we know that you don't care. Thank you for expressing that on this message board. Now you can go crawl back under your rock.
This is obviously a national tragedy for Norway. And my thoughts are with all who have lost a loved one.
Right now I'm more filled with sadness than in a long time. This is dreadful.
I love Norway, but the antimuslim, racist and neonazi tendencies are the same there as in most of Europe and it scares the hell out of me.
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What a narcissistic garbage post. Instead of posting stuff like that I would urge you to shut up, leave the keyboard and do something else.
Scratch that. Now I want to know why you decided it was worth it to write a post about how you don`t care, considering how much of an asshole it makes you look.
I think its ok. Let him write that. I know what GH means. I have it the same way when I hear about stuff like this happens in other parts of the world. It doesnt concern me, I cant do anything about it and I dont know anyone of the people in those tragic events. But that doesnt mean I dont feel it sucks for the people involved.
And the media isnt helping. They write and report this 24/7 for weeks. No wonder people are starting to care less for the others in the world. I sense it too. I feel that if the norwegian media are gonna continue with the mass amount of coverage of this shooting and bombing, I will start to get tired of hearing about it and ending up with dont caring either.|||Quote:
This is about a holiday camp with children. I don't think that's a good place for having guns on your body. The owner might lose it or it might be stolen and then he will have a really big problem, with a hundred 16 year old children on the island.
It is an EXCELLENT place to be able to defend yourself - and the defenseless kids. Also, while it is possible to "lose" a weapon carried in a concealed holster on your person, or have it "stolen from you," it's a non-trivial task, and based on decades of experience in the US - an extremely remote possibility.
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With a bit of talent, you can talk people into doing a lot of things if you wear an uniform, have a gun and wave around with your fishing license. And if that fails, you can still point a gun at a child and demand that all weapons are handed out. Most people will do that instead of taking a gamble and trying to shoot him by surprise and they won't expect what you are intending to do.
People who CCW typically won't surrender their weapons unless legally obligated. A random officer standing somewhere demanding that anyone with a weapon nearby reveal themselves has no legal authority (in any place I'm aware of that allows CCW) that compels the CCW holder to reveal himself because there's no detention involved.
And if a "cop" holds a kid hostage and threatens to shoot him, he's obviously not a ****ing cop with legitimate authority, and surrendering your weapon isn't going to save the kid.
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How could the 9/11 attacks be made by a few guys with utility knives? The world isn't like in Bruce Willis movies.
Because the vast majority of people have the impression that the government is obligated to and will protect them. And they were taught to comply with the orders of terrorists and avoid resisting so as to "not escalate the situation." They were wrong. Because escalation does not have to be a two-way street - one party can unilaterally escalate the situation.
There was a group of people on a plane who came to their senses. And their actions to NEUTRALIZE the threat instead of simply sitting there waiting to die saved countless lives.
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Including unprepared people with guns.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there were no good guys armed with guns on the island. There were plenty of unprepared people there, unarmed, but that's not always their fault to due legal circumstances (not to mention personal choices, obviously).
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People in many European countries don't have to learn how to handle guns because nobody but soldiers, policemen and hunters usually has a gun. I think it doesn't make sense to apply US standards to countries with a completely different attitude towards guns. In the US, the gun issue has a completely different historic background than in Europe.
People in many countries don't have to learn first aid or self-reliance or a lot of other important subjects. So what? It's definitely an attitude problem, I agree with that.
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Even in our deepest sorrow, norwegians don't get hysterical. We resist the hate. It is amazing to see how politicians and the whole country reacts. Norwegians are sad to the deepest thread of their souls. We cry in dignity. But nobody swears to take revenge. Instead we want even more humanity and democracy. That is one of the most remarkable strengths of our little country.
It's very respectable, but rumor has it it's going to be tough to keep him in jail for more than 21 or so years. Something about a trial every five years or something after that? After massacring 80+kids, there's something unjust about that, I think, despite the otherwise great response by the Norwegian people.|||Quote:
I see that it didnt take long, before the US and A peeps came into this thread with their guns blazing. Its ok, its their way of dealing with things.
The "US and A" way (in quotes because that's not quite how it works) is a very effective way in this instance. And the way it works is quite factual. IF someone like him had had taken multiple rounds in his thoracic or craniooccular cavity, he wouldn't have been able to kill any more children. That is a fact often disputed or overlooked.
Beyond that, the real question is a matter of will.
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We Norwegians, have other ways. When 9/11 happened, George W.Bush said "We want him(Bin Laden) dead or alive". When this happened in Norway, our dear prime minister Jens Stoltenberg said "We will retaliate this with more democracy, more openess and more humanity."
On the other hand, you got your guy. If he had escaped to Belgium and was captured, would you have demanded extradition to try him in your country or would you have just let him go?
I'm not saying the US is perfect - far from it. It's done horrible things to good people and has made countless mistakes. I'm also not saying your "way" is bad or wrong.
There is a time and place for everything. The key is knowing what, when, and how much.|||Module88, even though I don't agree to your point of view, I respect it. However, people in Norway don't want things to be handled like that. You can apply your standards in your country, but other people might run their societies in a different manner. Every decision about a whole country will cost lives in one way and save others in another. The Norwegians don't need lectures about that matter, from none of us.|||Quote:
Yet you don't see anyone banning cars, despite there being a much, much, much, much, much, much, much greater chance of drunk drivers than spontaneous insanity.
par�a�noi�a
[par-uh-noi-uh] Show IPA
�noun
1.
Psychiatry . a mental disorder characterized by systematized delusions and the projection of personal conflicts, which are ascribed to the supposed hostility of others, sometimes progressing to disturbances of consciousness and aggressive acts believed to be performed in self-defense or as a mission.
2.
baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others.
I'm glad you mentioned this b/c it is one of many examples of things that do go wrong with law abiding gun owners. It's not delusional, however, to point out how stats work. The world you see on your way to work is an illusion, with the healthiest putting on their Sunday best for the sidewalk stroll and many of the nutcases holed up somewhere out of sight. I'm not saying cars, guns, etc should be banned. I'm just pointing out the reality.
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