He has now suggested that there are others who share his views and are willing to act, I think/hope that this is only an attempt at a little more fear though.|||There was indeed limited transportation available (as far as I've read in the media). Apparently only military choppers have personel transportation abilities (not counting medical choppers, who AFAIK is not designed to transport special forces). Why there was no boat prepared when they arrived (haven't read about this, so asuming it's true) was a big oversight. Suffice to say I'll be very surprised if there is no investigation as to the response time etc. Then again a 500 Kg bomb went off not long before, completely trashing several buildings and sending a shockwave several hundred meters out around the blast shattering windows.
There was an officer on the island to help with security, but he was shot. Haven't seen any reports on how early he got killed, but it seems this guy came more than prepared for what he was doing, having planned it all for several years. I'm guessing the officer on the island was killed quite early.
My heart goes out to all those affected. I'm also extremely happy that a couple of my friends who were close to the bomb when it went off got out unharmed.|||Quote:
I'm glad you mentioned this b/c it is one of many examples of things that do go wrong with law abiding gun owners. It's not delusional, however, to point out how stats work. The world you see on your way to work is an illusion, with the healthiest putting on their Sunday best for the sidewalk stroll and many of the nutcases holed up somewhere out of sight. I'm not saying cars, guns, etc should be banned. I'm just pointing out the reality.
Stillman, I'm getting a little concerned about you now. Please listen to what you are saying. First you say stats show all gun owners are time bombs ready to spontaneously go insane at any moment. Then you say that because the stats don't show that, it means that they really do because the people who went crazy are all hiding in a hole around every corner.
Its leaving me with only two conclusions here. Troll or paranoia.|||Your use of hyperbole is admirable. I clearly did not say all gun owners are anything, just that some small percent are expected to go bonkers. The more gun owners, the higher the number of bonkers gun owners. I also said the people we see everyday tend to look normal, making a false impression of how mentally stable the population is. So the small number may not be as minuscule as we think. I thought my posts were clear.
Oh well, to be very clear, all I'm saying is there is a price paid for more people owning guns and carrying them in public. As tragic and extreme the recent event is, it may be that if they did things the American way, we might see more killings spread out over years. Meaning they may be better off without gun owning heroes all over the place. Of course, this is just my opinion on the matter. In some cases, when gun owning heroes fail to find any action and their life is going nowhere, they make their own action and themselves the star.|||@stillman: I see your reasoning in that the more gun owners there are, the higher the chance is for someone to go bonkers and start killing people. While at the same time, there's a higher chance that someone carrying a gun can put a stop to another person's rampage. However as I'm sure you're aware, this recent act wasn't done by a guy who suddenly snapped. It was carefully planned for about 9 years or so. It wasn't just a gun owner who went over the edge.
So imo it's better that civilians aren't allowed to carry weapons, as it reduces the chance for someone to go crazy and start shooting up the place. I do believe though that Norway's police/special forces can have some very good improvements in terms of response time and resources available to reach destinations. In this case, despite the bomb that went off, they should've been at the island a lot faster. Also in some ways increase the security around places that can be potential targets for terrorism or other attacks.
Although who could predict that someone would go out and slaughter kids? o.o
Of course it's very easy for me to sit here and type all this in hindsight of what's happened.|||Stillman, you really need to stop listening to the gun control scaremongering. Now you're saying these people go crazy because they are bored with not getting to shoot somebody? So they are all closet homicidal maniacs? Reality is not on your side, and this is getting pathetic.
Nobody is looking to be a hero. In fact, people would rather walk the other way, but sometimes that's either not possible or not prudent. Its all about practicality, much like buckling a seat belt or wearing shoes.
You can't be so afraid of the incredibly miniscule possibility of spontaneous insanity that you seek to restrict everyone to prevent it. If you are, then you may as well just gather everyone in the world together and put them all in their own 8x10 windowless cells so they can't hurt anybody. I mean, what's stopping somebody from snapping and driving their car through a preschool? You already mentioned drunk drivers, but what about spontaneously insane drivers? Think of the children!
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@stillman: I see your reasoning in that the more gun owners there are, the higher the chance is for someone to go bonkers and start killing people. While at the same time, there's a higher chance that someone carrying a gun can put a stop to another person's rampage. However as I'm sure you're aware, this recent act wasn't done by a guy who suddenly snapped. It was carefully planned for about 9 years or so. It wasn't just a gun owner who went over the edge.
Yes, that is a valid point. This particular event was done with planning, not by somebody who just got the urge to kill a bunch of people. Nobody could have predicted it and no amount of gun legislation would have prevented it. In fact, it presumably made the shooting much worse than it had to be.
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Also in some ways increase the security around places that can be potential targets for terrorism or other attacks.
"Remember, Big Brother is watching you."|||Quote:
Yes, that is a valid point. This particular event was done with planning, not by somebody who just got the urge to kill a bunch of people. Nobody could have predicted it and no amount of gun legislation would have prevented it. In fact, it presumably made the shooting much worse than it had to be.
Imo it made the whole thing much worse. If someone just snapped and didn't even know what he was doing, well at least there is an explanation for it you can somewhat understand. But how can you possibly understand the reasoning of someone commiting a crime like this, fully aware of what he was doing? Dressed as a policeman, walking up to a crowd of children, telling them everything is alright, then start shooting them. It's said he was pretty stone cold the entire time, to the point where he walked towards people who had survived his first shot, and then shot them again to make sure they died. O_O
I think the scariest thing of all this is he didn't just kill everyone in sight. Some people who begged for their life was apparently shot, while he let others live.
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"Remember, Big Brother is watching you."
Not sure what you're getting at here. I didn't mean anything close to having surveilance cameras everywhere. But at least have better response times, and depending on the occasion a bit more security at the place. Maybe I'm just looking at this from a wrong perspective, but somehow 1 officer that AFAIK didn't carry a gun doesn't help much. However like I mentioned earlier, no one can predict that a person will start slaughtering defenceless children, despite the camp being driven by political views.
I've also heard today (atm just rumors, haven't been able to confirm this anywhere) that the bomb left a crater about 2 floors deep.|||Quote:
Not sure what you're getting at here.
Just that you should be careful when talking about increasing security. It is scary how easy it is to fall into something out of "1984" after being hurt by someone. America has certainly been dealing with that particular lesson since 9/11. Don't make the same mistake.|||Quote:
Just that you should be careful when talking about increasing security. It is scary how easy it is to fall into something out of "1984" after being hurt by someone. America has certainly been dealing with that particular lesson since 9/11. Don't make the same mistake.
Ahh yea I know what you mean. It's a slippery road indeed. I think perhaps what I mean is more in the line with increased response times and resources for dealing with situations like these.
From what's been released in media, it took about 30 minutes from the police forces arrived at the area before they got hold of proper transportation, and the special forces arrived about 15 minutes before the transportation was ready to take them across to the island. It took an hour from the incident was reported until the guy was capture. Like I said maybe I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective, but it's difficult not to feel like the forces that arrived should've had transport across immediately. It could've saved a lot of lives.|||Glurin, once again, you are using hyperbole to misconstrue. I said "In some cases" and you read this as "all"? I never said people suddenly go "spontaneously insane", either. I said there are many different mental conditions where things can go wrong with some gun owners. I never said I wanted to restrict everyone; I am merely pointing out an increased risk. You are really interpreting things wrong. Don't worry, I'm not on some side to the extreme opposite of your position. There are pros and cons to everything.
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